Stopping Car Theft Before It Starts with Marcel Stellaard, Stephán Kemp, and Barton Harris

Russ Fordyce 🏆 (00:01.526) Welcome back to the winner's circle everybody. I am here today with Marcel and team from Titan Secure. And they are a new big innovation award winner for their product, the Titan Secure product, which is a kind of the be all to end all for auto security. And they're going to walk us through all the threats and the new platforms and features coming out on Titan Secure to help kind of alleviate all those stolen cars. So gentlemen, congratulations and welcome to the winner's circle. Marcel Stellaard (00:28.453) Thank you very much, Russ. Stephán Kemp (00:28.992) Thank you. Barton Harris (00:30.615) Thank you, Russ Fordyce 🏆 (00:30.818) So Marcel, why don't you step back and for those of us that don't know who Titan Secure is, you guys are a South African company. Give us a little bit of background about Titan Secure and what you guys are kind of looking to solve in the automotive theft area. Marcel Stellaard (00:44.293) Yeah, so, Platens to Care was established, like you said, in South Africa, based on a general demand for curbing vehicle theft. We in South Africa have a large problem when it comes to vehicle theft. A lot of our vehicles get exported up into Africa and some European countries. And there's various different... different types of products available, most of your normal telematic tracking devices and here and there, some anti-theft devices, but there's never really a product that sort of caters to all, and there wasn't really anything innovative around it. So it's when, back in the day when Stefan and the founders came together and said, listen, how can we tackle this problem with something completely new? And something that we can then take and scale and grow the business to. And that's sort of where we've found it. And Stefan can maybe elaborate around where it originally started. And as any growing business, we tend to pivot very quickly when we see things don't necessarily work in a specific way. And that's very much tight and secure. We tend to pivot very quickly based on market demand and also the way that we see global markets need to be satisfied. So, yes, fun can bring us into maybe just saying how that product actually developed from a very rudimentary mechanical device to where we are today. Stephán Kemp (02:12.97) Hmm. Yeah, so what do you think? Russ Fordyce 🏆 (02:14.976) Yeah, Stephon, did you have a car stolen or? Is it a personal origin story? Stephán Kemp (02:18.335) Unfortunately not, or fortunately not. No, actually some friends of mine lost some of their vehicles and everybody started complaining about tracking devices. So if you think tracking, you think reactive. And we said there might have to be a way to be proactive about this. And we started with actually developing a mechanical device that we bolted onto the engine and we basically locked the engine. and to lock that engine we needed electronics to operate that lock and with the development of the electronics it became so good that it became a product on its own and then we moved over to solely electronics it's much more scalable and much more OEM friendly we still have some mechanical devices in the market I still have one in my vehicle I'll show it off sometimes but We moved over to a total electronic hardware and now we're a software-enabled hardware company, if we can put it that way. I think that's where the future points... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (03:29.698) So walk me through kind of the system. You've got you kind of you started off with this kind of hardware lock. sounds like what are you guys? Where is the platform at today? I know you've you've got this kind of prevention system and you've got its link to GPS I think and then you've got this kind of new software AI approach to it. Marcel Stellaard (03:49.669) So if we have to go and look for you via our tracking device, the battles are really lost. So if we can prevent the theft from happening where you parked your vehicle and a lot of our marketing goes to where it's, know, find it where you park it, that's first prize to us. And the way that we do that is with interaction with the various OEMs, we integrate our system without giving away too much. We integrate our system within a lot of different systems in the car. And then during this process, we able to Lock down specific sections of the vehicle, clear the engine, the ignition, and so forth, and give the owner the control via either the Bluetooth on his cell phone or through a remote, depending on which region you in. We find that different regions tend to want different things, but we're able to pivot through that. then by doing that, we see that a lot of times with the theft attempts, if the... criminals struggle to actually steal the vehicle, they don't spend too much time there, they don't want to get caught. So they are out of there very quickly. And that's sort of the first layer. So we have very much a multi-layered approach where we filter into different aspects of the vehicle and then have the GPS, the tracking device. And then we've got various other things that we do with wifi sniffing and all those type of things to sort of bolster this approach. Then we package that to the customer as an anti-theft device at our core. We anti-theft at our core. I think for decades, the industry has really thrown tracking devices into vehicles just to try to solve the problem. But nobody's really come to the table and said, listen, why are we running after these vehicles? Let's take a step back and let's stop it before it even happens. This is us. This is what we're saying. That's where we are. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (05:42.784) Well, I think, you know, in my estimation, think like you're saying, those tracking devices and the rise of all of those, the LoJack and everything else, was at least my memory in the United States was really probably developed for the insurance companies more than the consumer. You know, it was developed to get that asset back and that, as you said, Marcel Stellaard (06:01.306) Rock you. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (06:02.882) You don't want that car back most of the time. I'm outside of Philadelphia and I think it's the worst car theft market in America, or used to be. And those cars, the cars are stolen and used for crimes or joy rides or whatever. It's not something that, they're not taking care of it. Marcel Stellaard (06:05.881) Mm. Yeah. Marcel Stellaard (06:23.311) Parts trade, the large parts of the Autobot of theft. Stephán Kemp (06:24.426) Yo. damage, the damage, usually is... Marcel Stellaard (06:30.565) Sorry, it's funny, no? Russ Fordyce 🏆 (06:30.71) Go ahead, Stephán Kemp (06:30.881) Sorry about that. The damage normally starts when the wheel starts running. So if we immobilize the vehicle completely, there might be a broken window, there might be some interior damage, but minimal. But the damage normally starts when the wheel starts turning. And we stop that. And so we stop a lot of damage to the vehicle due to that. Yeah, sorry, my star interrupted you. Marcel Stellaard (06:55.769) No, No, Russ Fordyce 🏆 (07:19.34) Well, yeah, and it's interesting that you guys are integrated at an OEM level. I imagine there's a very large difference, too, in kind of the different types of thefts out there. I would imagine there's kind of that personal theft of I need to go commit a crime or. go for a joyride and then there's like you're saying there's this kind of organized enterprise stuff that are shipping cars into different countries and I imagine the tactics are very very different like you're saying. You get into the professionalism of it and now all of sudden I know how to bypass security, know it's a couple guys, they're moving through a car pretty quickly I would imagine. Marcel Stellaard (07:54.821) Yeah, just to step back into the OEM, although we integrate using working with the OEMs, we're not necessarily at OEM level. Going through that process is just too cumbersome and takes too long. So they know they have a problem and they know they've got a global problem. So they're very happy to share with us and we share with them continuously and we work with them to find a solution and continuously innovate that solution. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (08:08.972) Yeah. Marcel Stellaard (08:24.069) You know, back to the question about the part, the theft itself, a lot of it in certain areas are joy rides and those type of things, but a big part of the syndicates are actually for parts trade throughout Africa and Eastern European countries. you, a lot of times you see these things spike and that's kind of what's happening now when there's war in the world. You know, these countries are sanctioned and these things tend to increase the parts trade. That's specifically a big... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (08:36.002) Right. Marcel Stellaard (08:53.711) problem with us in certain regions where specific vehicles that are more generic to, know, high volume vehicles that are more generic to others are stolen specifically for the parts that are to be utilized without Europe. you know, when the vehicle parts arrive in Europe, they're nicely and refurbed in the guy that's installed it, it's none the wiser. I always tell all the guys, you know, when you... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (09:14.614) No idea. Marcel Stellaard (09:19.258) When we sit around a boardroom table, the Thies or the Cynicids are sitting around the same table. They don't collude in bars and it's a billion dollar industry. It's enterprise. And the reasoning behind not integrating with the OEMs is you'll just become another tracking device because you will not be able to, they will not be able to keep up with your innovation around curbing this theft. And that's what we're all about is keeping up with that curve. If you ask me literally, Russ Fordyce 🏆 (09:28.864) It's an enterprise. Marcel Stellaard (09:46.991) beginning of last year, well, how do they steal a Toyota Tacoma? I would have said they do this X, Y, Z. That has already changed you to four different types over the past year. So yeah, that's our job is keeping abreast with the new trends of theft. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (10:02.508) Stefan, what's been the success rate of your system versus those traditional systems? Stephán Kemp (10:09.43) No, we have 100 % success rate, so we have not lost a single vehicle. So yeah, we always say it sounds like a made-up story, but that's our core. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (10:21.689) If you didn't hear that, that was 100 % success rate. So just to get the number out there. Stephán Kemp (10:25.653) Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. So we, we, we sometimes joke about it when we speak to insurance houses and we want to say 99 point something just to make it sound more, more believable. But currently we are happy to say it's 100 % success record. something that we're very proud of and we will continue to do that. And that's our, that's our main mandate. And if we can't uphold that, then we fail as a company. Barton Harris (10:28.276) you you Russ Fordyce 🏆 (10:52.546) Well, you guys have built this product in South Africa for kind of a global problem. And now you've got this solution. What is your go-to-market kind of strategy in South Africa and the rest of the world? Are you selling to dealers? Are you selling direct to consumer? How are you going at this? Marcel Stellaard (11:14.491) Yeah, so in South Africa, it's very much, you know, we've got different vehicles getting into the market. So we work with the dealerships itself. The dealership model is a lot different than Barton will lead it to now in the US. Yeah, again, you mentioned it earlier. It's driven by consumers. So we listen to voice of customer consistently. So the customers will ask for us at the dealership itself. And then we've got a direct market where we do online advertising and customers approach us directly. Insurance houses, a lot of insurance companies also refer customers to us with higher risk vehicles, brokerages, fleet partners, a lot of fleet companies now also on board it because they realize that they can utilize the tracking devices for whatever reason they need that, but the losses still happen and they want to try and curb that. Losing a vehicle is far more expensive than in terms of production and a production loss and all those things and then you know whatever report you wanted to pull. yeah, so it's a bit different as the Africans. So is the US market reacts differently to it and whatever other market we'll go to we'll cater to. And Barton could tell you now exactly what our process in the US, he's spearheading that for us. And it's been a learning curve for us South Africans to see what the market in the US is different to our market in terms of just the vehicle ownership and how guys tend to react to it. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (12:43.872) Yeah, I can imagine that's very cultural. Barton, as you're going into expansion mode, what are you finding out there in terms of consumer sentiment? Barton Harris (12:48.26) So, yeah, I spent 10 years in the GPS world and was fortunate enough to be around some pretty good guys. Built three very large companies, one of which recently sold Solara, which is called Low Jack. That name's kind of been pushed around. So the major issue that we have in the States is I'm... talking to dealers is just say, look, man, we just haven't had a car stolen. just wherever you park it, it's just kind of where it is. And I don't know what it is about Americans. They just don't want to believe good news. But they're like, well, you know, every conversation I have is, well, when it gets stolen, I'm like, we need to, again, we need to start at the ending here, right? Which is we've never had a vehicle stolen. So it is trying to unwind this mindset that consumers have. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (13:28.066) You Barton Harris (13:46.936) that they're gonna park their car. Well, they're gonna pay a thousand USD or whatever the dealer decides to sell this for. Hey, you your car is gonna get stolen and when it gets stolen, we'll just try really hard to find it. That's a really, really crappy value proposition. And you know, if you look at the landscape for automotive dealers in the States, they wonder why there's such consumer distrust. And so we look at companies like Carvana and some of the other direct consumer dealers, you know, customers are just like, hey, I just don't wanna go down and have some guy going back with the manager. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (13:58.465) Right. Barton Harris (14:16.418) And customers don't want to buy things like etch or nitrogen or paint and fabric or door edge guards or cup guards or, know, all of these things that are just bolted arm of the car that have a very, very minimal cost and really no direct impact to the end user. Right. So when I looked at Titan a year and a half ago, and we launched really in January, the idea and the concept here is, to unwind what every single American is thinking right now. Right. So low Jack. which is a product has essentially become a verb. If you think about it, it's like everybody buys a box of Kleenex, but which type of Kleenex, right? So the same idea in the concept. So going to a dealer and saying, hey, you can sell something that is tangible. It's being used and interactive with daily by your customers. We have a 100 % vehicle replacement theft guarantee. Hey, if we lose the car, we can't find it. We're to buy another car. That's above and beyond. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (14:49.697) Right. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (14:55.49) All Barton Harris (15:15.106) the settlement from your insurance. It is the same price or at some dealerships less expensive than the low jack solution. And the best part about it is the customers have already had success with it. And as we came out and decided to launch in the States, we decided to try and create some stories, right? Because stories sell and facts tell. So one of the things that we did is we purchased a bait car. We donated it to the largest county in New Mexico. Marcel Stellaard (15:18.789) this in effect. Barton Harris (15:44.772) I'm sorry to tell you Russ, Albuquerque's got your beat on the auto theft side per capita, per capita. So yeah, we buy this. Yeah, Billy, Billy wins a of other things, great sandwiches. So, so we buy this bait car. It's a 2016 Hyundai Sonata. And you've probably seen this from the podcast, right? Where you got these Kia boys and they're starting it with the USB. mean, and Kia lost a billion dollar lawsuit. I mean, it's been a class action thing and it's been settled, but. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (15:49.551) all right. Fiddly shout out, you're number two. Barton Harris (16:14.404) So we donate this car. Now we allow on this car only the vehicle to be started. Okay. But the, the sheriff's department can remotely cut the fuel. Now you might say, well, why is that a big deal? Well, because the average bait car for Albuquerque police department costs them a hundred thousand dollars a year. Right. Our system's not even close to that. Then they have to put up signs and say, there's bait car, there's a bait car in the area. Be careful. It's so you're already telling the guys, Hey, you know, we got something in the area. So Totally different. we we fund we donate and fund the program for the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Department. We've had close to 30 arrests, including a homicide offender. We've now fit systems on United States Marshals Services vehicle. And what the what the law enforcement guys tell me is the same thing. We don't want GPS. We want anti theft. We don't want to go and recover the car. It is a waste of resources for everybody involved. That's the consumer. That's the insurance company. And that's law enforcement. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (17:01.954) Yeah. Barton Harris (17:12.588) And we don't even talk about what is the true cost of loss to the retail consumer? Because see, I think it's really funny when people say, I'll take my chances. I've never had a car stolen before. Hey, if it's stolen, I don't want it back. Yada, yada, yada. Russ, here's the bottom line. It's $5,000 out of pocket. USD, at least. Plus, don't tell me you're going to get back in the car and feel comfortable. If your husband's robbed today, you wouldn't feel comfortable walking around your house. Marcel Stellaard (17:13.039) And we don't even talk about what's new. Hmm. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (17:27.797) at least. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (17:33.364) No, I... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (17:37.451) If you've ever gone through an insurance claim in the US, you know you are not fully covered. Marcel Stellaard (17:41.915) Mm. Barton Harris (17:42.22) No, they will never make, they will never make you whole. And if you can believe this, Russell, so, so, so my guys across the pond here, Marcel and Stefan clearly are better with talking to insurance companies than I am because I've been a member of USA for over 25 years because my military service, I can't even get an ear. I mean, it saves me 10%, but I'm literally looking at companies like USA and I'm like, Hey, my premiums have doubled in the last four years, not because of claims, but because I'm in a pool that's making claims, right? So it used to spend not that much, now I spend a lot and I save more. But if I could go to an insurance company and go, we could eliminate auto theft completely for your entire portfolio of customers. What is your losses against premiums for just that section? So not accidents, right? But just that. And here in the States, it's amazing. mean, if you ask me, the biggest Ponzi scheme in the United States is insurance because they love premiums, but they don't love payments. And I don't know if it's the same over there, but you know, it's a real... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (18:37.696) Well, I think it's it's it's there's definitely I think so much consumer. Barton Harris (18:40.707) Jason. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (18:46.05) It's a consumer awareness issue. I had a home issue, it was a flooding incident, I had flood insurance, but you're out of pocket thousands and thousands of dollars. And as you're saying, once that vehicle starts rolling, the anxiety, the fear, the doubt, everything from the consumer standpoint is activated. As soon as that low jack goes off, your heart rate goes up, you're now thinking what's been done in your car, where is it? Now you have to track it down, police have to track it down. Barton Harris (19:14.664) Russ, is such, it's such, yeah, it's such a disaster. So in my previous careers, I have been on three way recovery calls and it's probably the customer who said that if the car was stolen, they didn't want to back, but they might want their golf clubs back or their sporting equipment or their laptop. It is a frantic, frantic call. It's truly scary and sad to listen to. And here's the thing with, with law enforcement being underfunded, Russ Fordyce 🏆 (19:16.024) for everybody. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (19:26.849) Yeah. Barton Harris (19:40.994) and not appreciated, and we see this all over the country right now, the response time is terrible. I I have dealer friends in the Pacific Northwest that they call because their vehicle is stolen and they have a GPS on it. They don't have our system yet. Shame on me for not selling them tight and I'm working on it. But the bottom line is, is like, we can't even get Seattle PD to respond. And in Albuquerque, we do a bunch of business. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (20:06.018) Yeah. Barton Harris (20:08.824) you're not gonna get a response from the Albuquerque Police Department. They're just, just with them. That's right. Yeah. And John Allen, who's the sheriff for Bernalillo County and Sam Bregman, who's the attorney general for, or the district attorney for, for Bernalillo County. They both said in the States Russ, and this is where it's really, really sad. In the States, it is the funding mechanism for all the other crimes that we see. Okay. So that's going to be your drugs, your human traffics. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (20:11.926) Well, yeah, they're prioritizing assets over people too. Barton Harris (20:37.934) trafficking, your sex trafficking, all of these things that adversely affect the community. And then when you look at cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, or just Albuquerque in general, or New Mexico in general, they really struggle to bring in large businesses, right? Like why, if I own a multimillion dollar business, besides tax reasons, why would I go to New Mexico? Why wouldn't? Because you have the highest auto theft rate, you have horrible violent crime, and all of it stems from from the auto theft. from our perspective, and again, is Marcel and Stefan have got this thing right where it needs to be. If we can positively impact the community, if we can provide a five, seven or 10 % reduction in auto theft, because dealers are getting customers to adopt our product at the time of purchase, that is something great that we're doing for the community. That is how you build a great business is by doing something that's truly impactful. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (21:36.47) Yeah, well, I think you're right. It's that cultural fit where once you get that, you'll have wide scale adoption if you can change the outcome in a community like that. The other thing I see happening in this market though is this big shift to EVs. So I wonder how you guys are playing into that market and even down market from EV into all motorcycles, trucks, everything else that are out there. How does this change what you guys are doing? Marcel Stellaard (21:37.467) I Marcel Stellaard (22:06.491) Not at all. mean, you know, the shift to EVs, we were already in South Africa partnering with a company called TINBOT, they do a whole range of full-on electrical delivery bikes. We've got the BYDs of the world in South Africa as well with full EVs that we're already integrating into. So, you know, it's just going to start feeling the parts trade. It's still, theft will still happen there. And the way that we integrate in these vehicles are not just specific, you know, we can we can take our integration and do it vehicle brand specific and that's how we do it. We're not just a buyer with a content or footage of your home type of institution. We have integration teams that go and study and analyze the vehicle and schematics and integrate the diagrams and then plan out how we integrate with OEM approved lugs and plugs and looms and things like that to ensure that we comply with the vehicle. So yeah, think the future is actually bright and going forward, we've got a large focus on what we call yellow metal trucks and TLBs and things like that. And that's a large market for us as well. But currently our main focus is steering the ship into and maintaining focus and making sure that our product and quality is of such standards that the customers just keep on coming back. The more we save and that sort of button that maybe the success we had in South Africa so far and you'd have that soon is the more vehicles we save and the more that we present that to the insurance, the more they look at us and say, here's a viable option. So I suppose the success is in the results and that's gonna be the success in the States as well. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (23:50.356) Yeah, think Barton, maybe comment too. Maybe you saw it. did see, I think in the US, we saw a new insurance policy come out for Tesla models with self-driving, full self-driving, I guess is what they called it. And it was a 30 % reduction in insurance cost if you were full self-driving because they knew it was less likely to get in an accident. So I imagine the same would be true with yours is your theft coverage would go to zero or pretty close to zero. Barton Harris (23:59.332) I mean, it should. It should. I'm sorry, it should. You know, like, like said, I mean, I just, you know, Marcel Stellaard (24:23.991) No, no, go for button. Barton Harris (24:28.132) during COVID, everything was quiet. They come out of COVID, the dealers that we're meeting with in New Mexico, their garagekeeper's insurance has doubled over the last five years, their revenue has not, right? So we have had conversations with a couple of, one specifically, insurance provider where if we're pre-fitting 100 % of the inventory for the dealer. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (24:44.066) Yeah. Barton Harris (24:55.62) we assume the theft and identity theft liability. Those are two separate line items. So if you're looking at a standard dealership sells a couple hundred cars a month, that's 30 to $40,000 a year in premium savings, right? And now they're able to sell something that is truly worthwhile to their customers and really feel proud about it. And as far as EVs are concerned, we've already fit our system on Teslas. And I would like to talk to that quick. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (25:07.84) Yeah. Barton Harris (25:23.396) very quickly as far as the integration goes because of my history in GPS. Now I'm going to put this out there because I'm not scared. I'm telling you right now there's two places where you can put a GPS on a car. You can put it through the OBD port which is what everybody uses. That can create problems through the CAN bus if you're not doing a 512 pin to pin connection. cannot you don't need to be sniffing the CAN bus at all. You can't stay up with the over the air updates from the OEM or they have another device that they call the stealth device. Well it just hooks onto the post on the battery. OK so that's the two places. So So the installation for something like this is six to eight minutes. The uninstallation, which we've seen a guy that preloaded hundreds and hundreds of stores with GPS. It was the one car that we needed to find where it was ripped out. And there are videos, there are videos all over the internet with different GPS companies and customers finding those trackers. I have never in my life seen such an intricate and important Russ Fordyce 🏆 (26:02.562) you Marcel Stellaard (26:16.731) And can see how the steps have been different here. Barton Harris (26:22.38) and detail oriented fitment of this. The example of this is I took my little Honda Accord down to get a, there was some sort of recalls on it. They unhooked the battery. Now I had disarmed the system. Here's the thing, two master Honda technicians, four others, my dash is off. They said, we're going to have to keep car over tonight. We cannot get it to turn on. go, I forgot to tell you how that tightens system. So that six individuals that are looking at this, this store was owned by Berkshire Hathaway Automotive, by the way. It's Bell Honda right here in Phoenix. So you have experts in a controlled environment that can't find what we're doing. For the guy that did the six minute installs and sold that to the dealers, for customers, you have to know and understand that what we're doing inside of the car is unlike anything that you've ever seen in your life. And to me, there's no moral conflict here because we're truly selling something that is Russ Fordyce 🏆 (26:59.062) Yeah, factory trained. Marcel Stellaard (27:02.491) you Barton Harris (27:20.9) an industry disruptor. And as far as it relates to the OEMs, I'm glad we're talking to them. But here's the thing. I don't think Mary Vara at General Motors cares if a Chevy Silverado or a Chevy Suburban gets stolen. In fact, I think she's rooting for them to be stolen. I their margins on parts and reselling cars is great. So it's it's this vicious circle. And to have something like this in place. And I can tell you right now, I've never been more secure and happy when I leave my car because I really don't. think about it at all. and that's, that's a, peace of mind is the juice is worth the squeeze in that area for sure. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (27:51.638) Right. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (27:57.366) Now Marcel and Stefan, how do you guys stay ahead of the new threats? I see all these scanners and stuff, the flipper that are spoofing keys and doing all that stuff. I imagine the threats are significantly more complicated as access to these tools becomes kind of easier to get. As AI makes it easier to code things, right? Marcel Stellaard (28:15.0) Yeah. Marcel Stellaard (28:18.735) Yeah, so I always like to say like we've been privileged in a sense that we've been dealing with a third world problem for very long and now we can sort of give you the solutions and answers to these things because we've been dealing with military sized jamming detectors and things like that, jammers and what not for very long. But if you can design a system that whether you've got a jam or not, it's got no bearing on whether you can start the vehicle or not. you circumvent that and that's just adding the layers. We also practice something called Kaizen, so it's very much the Japanese term that Toyota also uses, continuous improvement, continuous improvement, and know, going to the source, finding what you can change and improving on that. And that's very important in this space because as you just said, the way they steal vehicles changes on a monthly basis. as OEM says, you know, we sort of figured out that they... connect on this GAN bus, we therefore took this wire out, they just go to another place. So you have to stay abreast with all these things. And the way we're doing it, we've literally rolled out three different products in the last two years, just staying ahead. And it's not adaptions, it's new products. And again, we're looking into the future and we're looking into going modular and adding more layers to the system to make it take... Look, I've got no illusions if... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (29:20.738) Yeah. Marcel Stellaard (29:44.121) If somebody sits with a vehicle for 12 to 14 hours or whatever and they've got time, they're going to try and figure it out. They will be the... I know Stefan doesn't want to hear it, but if there's enough time, somebody might be able to get that car on a low bed at least and drive off with it. But we will then... That's it. And the more... Russ Fordyce 🏆 (29:59.33) Well, they're coming for you. The more popular you get, the more people are coming at you. That was the old adage for Mac security, is Mac people didn't need securities because there weren't enough Macs out in the world for people to really attack them. That's changed, obviously. But yeah, you guys are going to be playing whack-a-mole, I imagine, of developing product and improving it, kind like you're saying. Marcel Stellaard (30:27.899) Yeah, definitely. again, it caters to different regions. A large market that's sort of opened up is Australia. Australia's inundated with... And I mean, it's this island, right? Yeah, the bottom. But they've got a massive problem with car theft and parts theft. Really just overtaken even South Africa in that sense. And there's nothing really there. And the OEMs in that region as result... reverted back to issuing standard steering wheel locks. The steering wheel lock you put on, because that's the answer they've got. They haven't been dealing with these issues that we've been dealing with. And that's why we feel comfortable in being able to expand this product into Africa, into the Americas, into Europe. Yeah, that's the future. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (31:05.985) Yeah. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (31:16.0) And Stefan, from a product perspective, what are you looking at next? Russ Fordyce 🏆 (32:54.528) Yeah, super interesting guys. You know, congratulations to you for solving the problem. Now we just got to go out and get the world to adopt it, right? But yeah, super interesting. You know, as somebody, like I said, as somebody who's been through a lot of insurance claims recently, you are not covered. And this seems like a good piece of mine and congratulations on all the success you're having. And, hopefully Barton will get you in here and get you moving inside of the U.S. Barton Harris (32:57.732) right. Marcel Stellaard (33:02.5) Educate the consumer, that's what it is, yeah. Barton Harris (33:22.756) You Marcel Stellaard (33:23.798) to them. Russ Fordyce 🏆 (33:27.916) Well Marcel, Stefan and Barton, thank you so much from Titan Secure. It's super interesting. We look forward to talking to you and seeing how you guys progress in the next couple of years. Marcel Stellaard (33:36.037) Thank you, Ross. Appreciate the time. Barton Harris (33:36.271) Thanks, Russ. Cheers.